Podcast Transcript – Series FOUR Special Episode I

Real Talk Flashback 2020 part 1: Black men founders June2023

 

[00:00:00] Dan: What’s up Unfound Nation. Dan Kihanya here. Thanks so much for checking out another episode of Founders Unfounded. In honor of Juneteenth and the third anniversary of the murder of George Floyd, we thought we’d do something a little different this month. Back in June, 2020, we did two episodes with black men and black women founders.

[00:00:18] These have been two of the most popular episodes of Founders Unfound, and the sentiments and vulnerability shared are as powerful today as they were then. This is part one with me [00:00:30] moderating a panel of black men founders. In some ways, that time in 2020 was a catalyst for progress. Unfortunately, though, with an extended pandemic, a tough economy, and frankly, the passage of time, we have not seen enough continued focus and really a loss of priority.

[00:00:46] If it’s one thing that history’s taught us, it’s that where society’s gaze lands, progress and achievement will follow. So let’s stay at it. The founders from these episodes certainly show a represented slice of the founder journey. Since the recording, [00:01:00] some of these startups have prospered received investment capital.

[00:01:04] Some have pivoted and some have actually sunsetted, but all of these founders are wise and fierce. One final note about Juneteenth. I like so many only really began to know and understand Juneteenth in the last decade or so. It’s amazing that it’s now a federal holiday. We as a nation are still wrestling through how to recognize it.

[00:01:24] Some think of it more as a liberation day, like 4th of July, worthy of celebration. But [00:01:30] others think of the circumstances in the context and wish to reflect on it with somberness, much like the anniversary of say like 9/11. And I’ll be honest, I’m still figuring out where I land, but what I do have clarity on the day can be for everyone, an opportunity to learn, serve and reflect.

[00:01:47] Now on with this throwback episode, part one of our Juneteenth podcast. Stay safe and take time to ponder what you hear.[00:02:00]

[00:02:06] So, hey, Unfound Nation, this is Dan Kihanya, your host for Founders Unfound. As many of us have experienced, this has been a tremendously impactful, sad, invigorating, and also exhausting week for a lot of us, and to be a black in America. There’s nobody immune from what’s happening now. And so we decided to change up our regular schedule, our regular programming, um, just to [00:02:30] have a frank conversation.

[00:02:31] So I’ve brought on some of our former podcast guests who are all over the country and even in just over the border in Vancouver, um, to talk about their feelings. How they, how they’re viewing things in, in, uh, in real time. How they feel as entrepreneurs, as black men, and what we think we can be doing, what we can be calling on others to do, to address police brutality, racial inequality, um, and the things that have sparked, uh, the overwhelming protests that are going on right now.

[00:02:59] So we’ll [00:03:00] start off with, uh, having, um, everybody introduce themselves. So why don’t we start with you, Bara.

[00:03:05] Bara Cola: Hello everybody. I’m Bara Cola. I’m the founder and of Carbice Corporation. We keep your electronics from overheating. And I’m professor at the Georgia Institute, technology science mechanical engineer based Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:03:18] Coach AK: How you doing? My name AK, or Coach AK. I’m out here in Boston. Business Strategist, uh, speaker, Executive Coach, and also the founder of Elite Styles.

[00:03:28] Kahlil Ashante: Hey everybody, uh, Kahlil [00:03:30] Ashanta here. Uh, I’m an actor and a web developer, founder and CEO of Weshowup.Io, a digital Pay What You Want solution for VR Online and events. Um, and I’m in Vancouver, Canada by way of Japan, by way of Germany.

[00:03:44] Claudius Mbumba: And hey guys. My name is Claudius Mbemba, co-founder and CTO at Neu. We are a managed marketplace that connects Vacation rental host. Real estate agents and commercial offices to cleaners who can clean. Um, we’re based in Seattle, Washington.

[00:03:57] Dan: Thanks so much, uh, gentlemen, and I really [00:04:00] appreciate you taking the time.

[00:04:01] Um, one of the interesting things about uh, this week in particular has been just the, the, the pull and tug, I think that we’re probably all feeling in terms of our own inner drive and, and motivation to be present and to be leaders. But also that for some reason there’s parts of the country that are awakening people that are in our own circles who are saying, wow, can I talk to you about this?

[00:04:23] Or, I never really, really understood this. And so I do appreciate you taking the time. I, I’m hopeful that, um, the [00:04:30] conversation is fufu for you as well. So why don’t we start off with just. How do you feel today? Um, which is, you know, Wednesday June 3rd that we’re recording this 2020. How does it feel today to be a black man?

[00:04:43] Coach AK: Just here in Boston? You know, I did a post on this yesterday and I’ve receiving a lot text messages, emails, and people that wanna have a conversation. As you’re talking for me for a while I was feeling this situation was a little bit like [00:05:00] deja vu, whereas like we’ve been here before, but it sounds and feels it’s different are up and you know,

[00:05:11] black was same individuals that excuse. Was something happening, but in this time, saw opened their eyes to realize we’ve talking about for while. So they’re listening[00:05:30]

[00:05:30] conversations.

[00:05:38] Dan: Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. I think it’s been somewhat validating, right? I mean, I think for all of us, um, I, well, I can speak for myself. All right. You know, you operate in, in several universes and it’s, it’s can be exhausting, right? To have to go back and forth. And in some ways, shield others who [00:06:00] are not experiencing this directly, you know, as if to say, maybe if they don’t feel that pain, they can appreciate it.

[00:06:06] Which is, as I thought about it, kind of a weird, you know, sort of ironic thinking, why am I shielding people from this when it’s, it’s the stark reality of it and the visceralness of it. That really affects them and, and can make them appreciate it more.

[00:06:21] Claudius Mbumba: Wanted to quickly chime in there and just echo some of the sentiments. I mean, it’s definitely been a, I’m sure people can echo this as well. It’s been an exhausting [00:06:30] last couple days, weeks, I think a lot of people question and, and have been really, really questioning the protests and rights and I. Some context to all this. I think people are quickly forgetting that we have been in a worldwide lockdown for the last three months.

[00:06:48] On top of that, black men still have to face racism and all that kind of stuff, and so that’s where I feel like all, that’s where all this is boiling from. A lot of pen up rage from the lockdown and then coming into these senseless killings. [00:07:00] Quite frankly, it’s been very just, yeah. As a black man, it’s kind of numbing, um, to have to experience this over and over again.

[00:07:06] As AK mentioned, it stays avu. We’ve been here before. It’s not new, but every time it happens, you ha you, you. It’s weird cause as humans we kinda operate in this multiple, we have multiple emotions going on at the same time. You wanna, you wanna be mad, you wanna speak out, but you also are just numb to all, all of it.

[00:07:22] That’s been happening. So it’s like constant. Yeah, just, it’s just a constant state of turmoil. I feel like I’ve [00:07:30] been sleeping more than I, I used to in the past because I’m just so tired all the time. Mentally exhausted, physically tired, and, and again, all of that on top of being an entrepreneur. Um, so it, it is, it’s definitely just really trying times and to a K’s point, I think, I don’t know what it is, about 2020, but just a lot has been happening.

[00:07:46] Also kind of get the sense that there’s a little bit of an awakening happening. I’m hoping that it’s strong and it really kind of leads to some, some change, but only time will tell Where, where this. Us. I’m hoping that America can come to realize the [00:08:00] disparities, the racial, the racial inequality, the injustice that has really caused this t quite frankly, and we can all to reflect on that and make things better going forward.

[00:08:11] Kahlil Ashante: This is Kahili, I echo that sentiment. I don’t, I don’t really have anything to conversation with that question. Listening to those older than, uh, lost my, both my grandmothers in the last years. I just remember them prior to saying, we’ve been here before, baby. You knows. Just that man, I just, you know, [00:08:30] I always hope they could see and be alive to see that change everything.

[00:08:40] Bara Cola: So, so this is Bara and I, I’ll, I’ll offer a, a different take. Cause I, I agree with everything these guys just said and I’ve had very similar emotions. Being a scientist and material scientist, I kinda look at things from a technology standpoint and to me, the way I see the whole thing, I see it with extreme optimism, knowing that we’ve been fighting the [00:09:00] same fight.

[00:09:00] For hundreds of years. But if we take a moment and we step back and we look from early settler times to, uh, the peak of slavery, the advancement newspaper systems to spread news faster was an aid to eventual overthrow of the slavery system. If you fast the time, the civil right television broadcast, What was happening in the South to not only [00:09:30] other parts of America, but to the world, was a technological revolution that we effectively utilized to set ourselves just a bit freer.

[00:09:39] And now you fast forward to today, and it’s amazing because you hear people say that, and it’s true that happening, but difference is it’s being filmed. You would not be able to film that if everybody didn’t.

[00:09:56] Allows us to sharpen the microscope on [00:10:00] this issue of racism. And what I, you know, what I’m optimistic about when I think about it is that I think of the opportunity, cause we have been some of the greatest utilizers of technology to advance our freedom. And I see over the next hundred years of potential for us to be the ones who.

[00:10:15] Make the materials inside the next phone, the next sensor, the next thing that will help people to understand this issue even more. People talk a lot about big data and you know, one of the things that I was gonna bring up that would be part of [00:10:30] my suggested actions is that when we term big data in AI onto this problem of racism in American society, we look at where companies put their manufacturing facilities.

[00:10:42] Where investments from corporate and government entities are made and not made, and we put that information out in front of people, change is gonna happen even more. So I, I’m optimistic, I’m tired because everybody is wanting to talk about it, and I, and I want to be a part of that, but I’m energized. From what I see and, and [00:11:00] what I know is the connection between our progress as a whole country and the technological advancements we make.

[00:11:06] Dan: Great point. Bara, uh, and maybe, uh, just expounding upon that a little bit, if we all wear the hat, so to speak, of being entrepreneurs, how do you view your role in all of this as an entrepreneur? As a black man who is an entrepreneur, is there something different or additional or is there a benefit or an additional challenge really to being an [00:11:30] entrepreneur?

[00:11:30] Kahlil Ashante: I was just gonna say, it almost feels like honor to be a symbol of empowerment. People who maybe up like we did or did not, and see that’s possible. I feel like learning to code for my personal journey made me feel like some of the technological advances the borrow was talking about. I understand them and understand how to harness them, and so all of the things that we, we, we already know about the lack of venture funding for people like us and all the different mountains we have to climb.

[00:11:59] I do [00:12:00] feel like as an entrepreneur that there are a lot. There’s a blue sky for us when empower ourselves, understand, and.

[00:12:21] Coach AK: As I’m making my, you know, my, uh, my New Year’s resolutions, I would say where we’re right now is almost like the Twilight Zone. You have [00:12:30] Covid, you have protests, you have, you know, and, and Covid even goes into a bigger situation. So even thinking about what’s going on right now, we’re still dealing with a covid situation where all of a sudden we all had become more digitalized in.

[00:12:49] International speaking, two days before, oh two days I was actually on the plane. My whole schedule was, was canceled. What ended up happening, I think as an entrepreneur, what was the benefit? Is [00:13:00] I entrepreneurship more than just business, meaning we don’t need to told something problem. We know how to put the people, the action.

[00:13:11] Now, how that helped, I Wise, is.

[00:13:16] How I use it as entrepreneurship is how can. A problem right now, it’s people are now aware and they’re looking for some guidance, and I’m lucky that, uh, some of the work I do is speaking and you know, [00:13:30] my goal is how can I share the voice? How can I share the voice? Others, people asking, getting messages on, can I help?

[00:13:37] Let’s have a, so how can use voice other people’s voices?

[00:13:50] She was talking. What’s your experience with police officers? Well, I’ve probably been pulled over, over like 60 times and of those 60 20 of them were kinda in [00:14:00] hostile and those were straight up hands on hip. And I asked her was I’m just as much anomaly for her to hear that.

[00:14:17] And it just showed me about how people that live the same environment can completely different experiences. I think that’s what they’re getting aware to.

[00:14:26] Dan: That’s a great point. Uh, ak I, I, I do see that [00:14:30] the entrepreneurial skill gifts. Personality attributes, whatever you wanna call it, is very solution oriented in all of what we do.

[00:14:40] All of us, we look at the world, we say there’s a problem, there’s a challenge, there’s a, there’s a need that’s unmet. And we deploy that in sort of an economic project called a startup, which is how do we find a solution that fits that need and fits it better than it has ever been fit? And in creating that [00:15:00] value, build a business.

[00:15:00] But I do think those skills, tho that mentality can be aimed at social solutions, political solutions that need are needed as well. And so I’m personally feeling a lot of obligation to try and turn my experience, my expertise into a machine that can help. Um, not just be an example and do well and thrive in my business, but how can I actually put those skills to work?

[00:15:28] Claudius Mbumba: Totally echo that. I was gonna just [00:15:30] build on what AK had mentioned here to your question around what we as entrepreneurs can do and how we can leverage our platforms to impact the situation This time and recently wrote, written a blog post around how all of us have voices and the gist of it was more or less that.

[00:15:46] Some voices are more amplified than others. We, as entrepreneurs, especially tech entrepreneurs, have the privilege to be able to have our voices get carried, carried in these ecosystems that we operate in that are primarily white. And so what [00:16:00] I’m doing, and I know what I’m doing in my, in my small bubble, is just leveraging my voice to educate those around me about more around this situation.

[00:16:08] Again, a lot of people are wanting to listen now. I think this is definitely the time to really not be silent, but actually be, be out there, be speaking and helping others come to an understanding or at least come to, to be empathetic to the situation and, and what has caused all this. Again, we’re very fortunate as entrepreneurs to be able to have the [00:16:30] ears of our ecosystem, those in the ecosystem, whether it’s those in venture capital.

[00:16:34] Or other fellow entrepreneurs to be able to then leverage that. But I think what my blog post and what kind of I was getting to alluding to in that was more around that as much as we can do, we definitely need our allies, those who are, who have more of a platform than we do, largely the white males in these ecosystems who have a larger platform whose voices care even more.

[00:16:55] To be able to speak on our behalf and carry our message forward so that others can see it as [00:17:00] well. Because Richard Sherman had recently put out a, a statement, uh, stating that he was very happy to see other white football players picking up the, carrying the flag as well. Because for some people it coming from a black athlete, it doesn’t resonate as much as it coming from someone of their, their race.

[00:17:15] And so it’s same here and I’m glad to see that others are, are, are really stopping the silence and, and getting in the field and. Being proactive and really speaking.

[00:17:25] Kahlil Ashante: I agree that, you know, we building and using our voice, what, however that [00:17:30] voice needs to come out is absolutely what needs, if I may wanted ask, it comes voice approach you asking how can use their voice.

[00:17:43] Have have any of you encountered that? What was your, what was your approach that, that’s something that’s been asked of me that I wasn’t quite sure how.

[00:17:53] Bara Cola: You know, one, one of the biggest lessons I learned as an entrepreneur is in process of getting tenure at Georgia [00:18:00] Tech. You know, we start off as a faculty member. A lot of times people say, Hey, don’t do all this outreach stuff. Focus on your research and get tenure, and then help people after that. And they have good reasons for saying that, but one of the things that I’ve found, Which ended up being kind of opposite of the common advice is that if I found ways to weave social activism and consciousness into the fabric of what I do fundamentally in my research in a way where it’s not stretching me, but it’s a mutual learning experience, [00:18:30] not only was I able to do it efficiently cause it was.

[00:18:32] Holistically part of my life, I became excellent in, I won awards and I did everything and I exceeded. So when I built car, one of the things I thought about upfront was, I mean, we sell materials. We sell something that looks like black, dirty aluminum foil that goes into your computer and nobody ever sees it.

[00:18:48] I mean, there’s no social justice mission that you really naturally would think you.

[00:18:55] We have control over and that’s kinda what fuels us a lot of times when I go out and execute [00:19:00] building culture at Car Bais, we really were intentional about focusing on values and things that we felt drove good business, but also drove us to be good citizens. And I, and I think in, in thinking about it that way, I felt very well prepared for the situation.

[00:19:14] And that if I decided to pin an article like I did yesterday, that it fit seamlessly into the culture that I was building in my company. And so that’s kinda the advice that I tell people in general is that if you wanna have a voice, find a way to make it authentic and to your experiences, speak [00:19:30] passion for you interested in.

[00:19:34] Claudius Mbumba: Plus one to that something brought. Definitely one lot of people. Fully assume, and Dan, you alluded to this as well in mentioning that you’ve written your blog post on this topic, what, eight times now, and, and still haven’t found the courage to push that out the way you want it? Yep. A lot of people assume that black people have the answer in, in this situation or can, or that, that the situation [00:20:00] isn’t as uncertain for us too.

[00:20:02] But all those points allude to the fact that both Dan’s comments and KH. The fact that we too face the same problem in the sense that it is a touchy subject. No one knows what exactly is right to say, and we’re all trying to figure that out. But my advice has always been one, speak to Varas point. Speak on your experiences and no one can ever discount your experiences.

[00:20:21] So that’s, that’s the one thing. Speak on your experiences and trust your gut in terms of speaking to, speaking to that, as long as you’re doing those two things. Whatever [00:20:30] statement you’re making, you can know it’s factually accurate. You can know that no one can call you out on it. No one can try to undercut your statement.

[00:20:36] No one can try to take that away from you. Um, so I had a, a friend recently reach out to me who was a business owner in, in Seattle, who recently had their place, almost ransacked, et cetera. And we were just discussing that. And I brought up the same fact that like, Hey, I, I’m, he was discussing not knowing how to, how to, more or less what to say.

[00:20:54] He felt, he felt kind of hamstrung. And I was like, well, I’m in the same place. It’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s not any, any different on this [00:21:00] side. I have to also be cautious about, conscious about what I’m saying. Um, and it’s not like I have all the answers. So you coming to me, I love, I, we had a great discussion.

[00:21:07] I love the, the discourse, but I was open to letting him know like, Hey, I’m in the same place. It’s not like I have the answers. I can’t give you all those answers. Yeah. All I can do is speak on my experiences and tell you how I’ve experienced it and what. I think you should do, but that’s just again, my experience.

[00:21:21] So if any, hopefully that was kind of helpful. But that’s, that’s something I definitely wanted to touch on. The fact that people think black people have all the answers around this topic. It’s, it’s [00:21:30] not true. We’re also dealing with the same, same issues in terms of knowing how to, how to best approach it.

[00:21:35] Dan: Yeah, and just the people on this call, you can see, I mean, you know, there’s not one answer, right? And there’s not one stage of, of insight or preparation or contemplation that we’ve all done. And so it is, it is a hard thing. And when people come to me, you know, I’ve tried to be open and, and, uh, as you said, Claudius, it’s about sort of sharing my experiences.

[00:21:59] Not trying [00:22:00] to generalize for anybody. And also being very aware that I have several sets of things that are privilege enabling for me that o other black men and certainly other black entrepreneurs don’t have. And being conscious of that and. And being able to explain that I, that I appreciate those privileges, but I also wear them as a responsibility to try and help and to try and bring others along.

[00:22:25] Um, and Bara talked about values. I mean, I think that’s, you, you gotta go [00:22:30] back to what your values are and use that as the sort of foundation. And, you know, I also agree that being authentic is, is really what. What is key? And I know for me, I’m, I’m turning a point, like I, like, I think I said earlier, it’s like I felt like I’ve been isolating some of my non-black friends.

[00:22:50] What, what life is like. And I think I’m gonna let down that, that veneer, because that’s not serving them, it doesn’t serve the people who have the harsh [00:23:00] realities that I don’t have to deal with all the time, who have to deal with it every single day, every minute of day as they walk outside their house.

[00:23:06] So, great. Great question. Kahlil, thanks so much for, for asking that.

[00:23:10] Coach AK: Yeah. I wanna on what saying as well, Dan, two ways. One of is I’m lucky, I’m former professional athlete. But when I walk outside, I don’t have that credential around my neck. People still see me the same, and it actually shouldn’t matter if I have those or not.

[00:23:26] And what they don’t realize, especially when they’re talking about some of [00:23:30] these celebrities or athletes that are speaking up about it, what they’re doing is similarly what people are coming to us asking, what should do give us? So the same thing were.

[00:23:43] Why are they, you know, why are they adding their 2 cents to this? It’s, it’s similar what you’re seeing right now. You don’t realize that people right next to you, and as you said, I haven’t been sharing it, I don’t give that, you don’t realize that people right next to you that working the same, the same might have different experiences and you know, look at [00:24:00] even potentially moving forward, you know, The video that we saw of the officer, we sometimes always look at it as police brutality and what we around that, around that vehicle.

[00:24:22] Some things that people can do is this may change the way that we now begin to hire, or the companies we begin to fund. When you [00:24:30] realize and you understand these stories, so we can do something, people can do something. It’s not just about brutality. It’s the system that jobs in power that may have overlooked somebody.

[00:24:44] Their backgrounds may have a second look and realize that they can do something each and every day.

[00:24:49] Dan: That’s a great point, aka. Great point. So maybe let’s dovetail that into the conversation of now, and we’ve already alluded to it several. We’ve already brought it up. I think we’re all chomping at the bit to, so to [00:25:00] speak.

[00:25:00] But what, what do we do? What, what is the action? What is the recommendations that we have for ourselves and for others like us? To move the, the needle here and to move the ball forward. Whatever metaphor or analogy you want use so that we’re not talking about this in 2021 or in 22 or in 23. What is it we can do?

[00:25:21] Bara Cola: You know, I, I grew up in, I grew up right down the street park and projects. You get those,[00:25:30]

[00:25:31] I. Go into the trailer park and they, they may beat up the white people there and then they go down and shoot people in the black park. But now they’re, one of those is a good outcome. But then you go to these neighborhoods like the one I live in right now in Atlanta, and then park where people have money and the police are sitting there holding the door for you.

[00:25:49] So, I mean, I think that it’s just the community, the economics of the community is such an important thing to focus on. And I feel like that one, we’re completely blind to the reality. [00:26:00] Of how the economics of the counties across this country are set up and supported, which means there’s no accountability structure to, for corporations in the government, for the choices that they’re making that drives that disparity.

[00:26:14] And I, and I think as a first step, we need to just be aware of that and figure out a way to create visibility. Just like the cell phone camera creates visibility of the police officer putting his neck, his his knee on George Floyd’s neck. And killing him. [00:26:30] We need to create visibility of the systemic racism in the economic injustice that has lingered in society for some time.

[00:26:37] Claudius Mbumba: Would echo all of that and just like to build on that. Well, one, Dan mentioned. Yeah, we don’t have a definite answer. One thing that I’ve been doing in this time is really just reading up, learning, educating myself more on, obviously I’ve been sharing things to people in my network, educating themselves.

[00:26:57] But I’ve been reading up on politics and [00:27:00] the money that’s going behind it. Um, this could be a whole different conversation, but one thing I do wanna call out is just that racism and photography are kind of intertwined. There’s an Abbott you mentioned around kind of the districting and how. How certain areas are funded, et cetera.

[00:27:16] That all comes from politicians. It all comes from the top. Um, sadly, a lot of our politicians are being bought out by corporations and entities and billionaires who have the funds to be able to launder that money and hide it in, in, in a sense. [00:27:30] So I agree. The, the transparency has gotta be first and foremost.

[00:27:33] And I think that comes from the lawmakers. We need to elect leaders who create laws that provide the people with transparency as to who is doing what, who’s Cetera. So we can all kind. That audit trail of how these decisions are made. There’s, there’s certain laws that we all look at and like, how did this get passed?

[00:27:50] Like, why did this, like, why did this even make it through? And we don’t realize that there’s a lot of money coming through, pushing behind why its get, why it should get passed. And so I think there definitely needs to be a lot of transparency, [00:28:00] uh, at that level. And then also just. A lot of accountability from our elected leaders, quite frankly, a lot of them are jumping at the, at the role to quote unquote lead the people only to get, only to sell out and, and take money from others.

[00:28:13] And then essentially throw away their conscious in their morality in helping the greater good. And then that’s why I, I fight so hard to like know what to do because. It’s, it’s a huge, it’s this’s just a big system. We we’re fighting against a huge system and there’s a lot of points that need to be changed for things to kinda, for things to really change and for the, for, [00:28:30] for the tide to turn.

[00:28:30] But I’m just hopeful that people are educating themselves in reading things. Uh, one book I recommend is called Dark Money by Jane Mayer. Um, definitely recommend reading that book. Educates you on kinda the political system and how things are being bought out, how people are being bought out, politicians, et cetera.

[00:28:46] And those are the guys creating the laws that are essentially keeping racism and systemic racism in place. And I think that’s where it needs to start. That’s where the change needs to start from. Fortunately, I don’t know how we’re gonna be able to do that other than people becoming more aware of it.

[00:28:57] Kahlil Ashante: Yeah, that’s, that’s actually a really good approach, [00:29:00] man, because I, I. My, my time in the US Air Force, I was sort of mentored by an older brother from, um, Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. And he made sure that I read a book called The Miseducation of the Negro, uh, originally published by Dr. Woodson in 1933.

[00:29:18] And that, and I guess for me is I think about what I can do. So I have three boys who are, and it’s gonna easier for them grow up. In Vancouver than its in Seattle or Chicago. [00:29:30] And so maybe sort of, you know, for me, I guess my answer, what can we do is to, you know, for me is to make sure that I’m up on some of the things you were talking about, whether it be the political system, how things move, but also making sure that those around me are educated and that they’re exposed to this and that they underst, that they, you know, your kids can only understand so much until they experience it.

[00:29:50] But just to make sure that they’re not shielded from it. And I find myself, I wouldn’t say getting in arguments with other parents, but I do believe that there are a lot of parents out there who think their kids [00:30:00] are too young to learn about these kinds of issues. And I feel like that’s a very, look, we’re only gonna be around for, for so long.

[00:30:06] And the next generation is who’s gonna have to carry this torch? And if they’re growing up being sheltered, cause parents old. For me, and education for my kids is something that, um, I, I, I need to make more of a priority.

[00:30:25] Dan: Great point. I, I think for me, I, I look at it as, you know, I kind of, I’m [00:30:30] very com I’m very, uh, I, I would be a linear programmer, I think if I was an actual, uh, coder, but, You know, I kind of look at it as different, uh, trajectories.

[00:30:39] One is the personal level, so I talked about like how I’m gonna try to be more open and authentic with the people inside my circle. I, I, because of the, like Claudia said, because of the, the ecosystems we plug into, there are many people who don’t have any sense of this at all, and probably look at me differently than George, George Floyd, and I need them to understand that I can be [00:31:00] George Floyd.

[00:31:00] Just like AK said, when I walk out the door, my resume’s not taped to my back. My character is not on display as some coat that I can wear or say, oh, well he’s good. He’s fine. Right? Yeah. Um, my, my skin is my skin. And so, so helping them understand that. But I also think there is this ability for us to, to look into the deeper.

[00:31:21] Sense of transparency and accountability with politicians. I looked up the other day, for instance, you know, the New York police, just the New York Police [00:31:30] Pension Fund has 44 billion in it. And um, that covers I think something like 80,000 active and retired police officers. And as a businessman, I know that fund is right now in Fidelity and Goldman.

[00:31:45] And BlackRock and all these fund and all these, uh, fund managers, they’re making fees and if there was a call for accountability, Um, for instance, that those funds could only be custodial for [00:32:00] police pensions that have a certain amount of covenants around misconduct. And, you know, clearly you were in the military, there’s a very clear line of discharge.

[00:32:11] You’re honorable, you’re dishonorable, and if you’re dishonorable, yeah, you get nothing and you, you can’t be in the military again. Right, right now police officers can, can fade away and show up at another, another county, another city, uh, without any repair to their propensity to bad [00:32:30] behavior. Right? And so I think, I think there’s a lot of accountability, transparency that we have to start demanding.

[00:32:37] You know, for me, I think. Uh, and we’ve all brought this up. It can’t just be us and people that look like us, and I think that’s why you see people’s rage taking on the extreme measures. Cause, you know, you re, you scream enough when nobody listens. You start hitting and throwing and, and breaking things, which I don’t advocate.

[00:32:56] I’m not a violent person and I don’t, but I can totally understand [00:33:00] how that gets frustrating.

[00:33:02] Coach AK: I’ll, I’ll touch on that as well. Cause I just got off the phone. The person I was talking to, she was talking about how she feels a sense of shame a little bit. And I think the shame is cause when we’ve been talking about something for so long and then all of a sudden you real, it doesn’t mean the ones that the conversation beforehand didn’t happen.

[00:33:18] It means that she’s now aware. Oh my goodness. All those other times you were talking about this. I just didn’t pay attention to it. And where we’re right now, it’s if, if they don’t us understand [00:33:30] issues, they’re not right.

[00:33:37] And now they’re waiting. Like, give us some orders, give us some direction. And you know, one of the things I think is really good is social media with technological advances. But I also see that there’s a little bit of some negative or some challenges with it, right? Within, within the civil rights movement, they television, there could be one individual, one small group that says this is, we wanna do, wanna, this aligns with [00:34:00] voice.

[00:34:05] We want everybody to go to the poll or we want everybody to come on this and make it mandatory for police officers to have cameras, don’t case. So they’re, they’re

[00:34:20] after. Where do I do, what can I do on a daily basis? Cause I’m ready to do something And the only thing I feel like they think they can do is, well, I have the friend that is a black male. [00:34:30] Maybe I can help him out. But I think they’re trying to find something to do. They just need some type of clear direction.

[00:34:34] Bara Cola: I, I wanna add onto that AK cuz I mean, you, you are a true entrepreneur. Cause what I feel like you did is you identified a business. One way. And so there are problems with social media, just like you’ve identified, but I think that that’s the next company that somebody needs to start. Maybe they have already started it.

[00:34:52] Dan: Are you listening Unfound Nation? This is your call. We’ve all got businesses already, so this is an opportunity for somebody. This is, this is great. [00:35:00] So I know everybody’s busy, so I just wanna end, uh, with. Maybe just, um, people’s final thoughts and, you know, I would just frame it as if you’re sitting across the table from somebody.

[00:35:14] They want to understand what, what would you say, how would, how would you make them feel like you want them to help and that you can, you can give them sort of that call to action.

[00:35:26] Claudius Mbumba: I, I’ll jump in here first. I guess I would just, I would start by thanking [00:35:30] them for taking the courage to, to reach out. Again, we know it’s not easy.

[00:35:35] This is not uncom. This is notable times. Go do the hard thing, which is not sit silently and, and kind just, but actually take a step and reach out to someone infected or community and say, Hey, I’m, I’m here. I’m committed to change. How can I help? That’s the first thing, and that’s a hard thing, and understand.

[00:35:55] I would just start by thanking them. Then secondly, I would start by sharing them resources in [00:36:00] which they can educate themselves on the perspective of black males, black people in America. There’s tons of books, documentaries, movies, anything you want. There’s some, there’s something out there for you to go educate yourself on.

[00:36:11] Just the experience of of being black, and we can’t have change without education. People who aren’t able to see other experiences and empathize with them will never be able to. Yeah, never. I think it starts there. Um, that would be my, that would be my approach and my discourse and, and then obviously follow up with them just to make sure that we can have a [00:36:30] discussion, keep the door open, whatever they’re learning.

[00:36:32] If they have any questions, they can come back and ask me and I can provide my expressive and my experience on it.

[00:36:36] Kahlil Ashante: Yeah, I would, I would say something similar even, you know, to a Claudia talking about in the follow cause how many times do we have initial conversations? It almost becomes that. You know what, man?

[00:36:47] We need to get together that thanks and that gratitude, but sure, conversations wanted embracing. [00:37:00] What are the things you’re afraid of that you don’t wanna ask or that we don’t wanna talk about or that you think might be outta bounds? Cause it’s in the unreconciled parts of our stories that we find those opportunities.

[00:37:12] And that’s usually where most of growth, you know, proponent growth and discomfort go hand in hand and look at the growing pains our country is going through. And I feel like, you know, being able to build that trust with. [00:37:30] And letting them know that they’re safe and that they’re they’re witness to can lead to those follow conversations, which will hopefully little deeper create a understanding.

[00:37:39] Bara Cola: I’ll add that I would really challenge them to embrace that difficulty as well. When you respond to the, the trending nature of posting things on social media and then immediately wanting to make donations to charities that you feel [00:38:00] like are fighting, uh, this battle, and you do that without understanding the issue, you do that without having a deep appreciation for the root cause.

[00:38:09] You may miss the mark and if you miss the mark, you’re already gonna feel good about yourself, that you did something, you’re gonna move on potentially. So I, I would ask people to get uncomfortable with that and say, let’s not get caught up in the moment where we just wanna send whatever to a charity.

[00:38:25] Wanna post something and let’s go. A book. Let’s go. Yeah. More [00:38:30] research and try to really ask yourself the hard question, what is the root cause of this problem? And you may not get to it, but at least spend some time struggling with that. And then

[00:38:42] Coach AK: I, this little tough, I think the storytelling sharing stories needs to happen both.

[00:38:49] And you know, you know, for example, I.

[00:38:57] You know when I go into[00:39:00]

[00:39:07] lifestyle, Have never actually, they would never understand it cause they’ve never experienced it. They wouldn’t know what it feels like to be pulled over several times and they shouldn’t. I mean, that shouldn’t be like the, and I always talk about me. It’s really important that it’s not always about like privilege, like basic human right, basic human.

[00:39:26] We should safely, we should be able [00:39:30] to apply for a job.

[00:39:37] All humans should be able to do no matter how you and our goal should also understanding them and understanding each other feel comes side side. It’s gonna

[00:39:52] so, Both to have conversation, understand point of view. Some, I think some families do, maybe [00:40:00] environments.

[00:40:08] Guess

[00:40:12] not. It’s not trying to just find a solution. It’s. Your eyes have now been open. Now you can start listening when situations do arise and you see a report come out and it said this guy was risk resisting or he had drugs, and maybe like, I’m gonna question that just a little. So I think it’s about how keep the eyes open and back [00:40:30] blind.

[00:40:30] Look more things will happen, not just will happen. How can we get them onboard and understanding like question that situation. Something that’s right here. Now they’re our side long and not just the

[00:40:41] Dan: No, that was great. That was great. Wow. These are great suggestions and I put you all on the spot. And, uh, you know what I hear is this idea of, uh, the two-way street, I think definitely.

[00:40:53] You know, I would love to start the hashtag I practice civil discourse. Now I know that rage ha has its [00:41:00] place, but, but there’s so much of us talking past each other and, uh, you know, as the old saying goes, right, God gave us two ears of one mouth. Um, then that’s the proportion of our listening to talking.

[00:41:10] But I do think there’s also this option or this opportunity to challenge people around. Are you learning? Are you educating yourself? Right? Um, and that I think goes both ways. There’s sort of all kinds of resources to research and I think also the connecting, right? I think hopefully, if that person’s sitting across from me that we have at [00:41:30] least a level of intimacy in our relationship for them to have to ask candid questions.

[00:41:34] And I would say if you don’t have more people like that in your network, um, not tomorrow because. You know, that’s not the appropriate time during the middle of this, but at some point make it intentional, right? Those acquaintances, you know, pursue them as potential people who could be deep relationships, and so the like AKA is saying the stories that you can hear.

[00:41:56] And feel from somebody who is your [00:42:00] friend and who is somebody you’re close with will resonate just as much as what you see in social media or on the news and sometimes more. And I also think that this idea of investing and acting is gonna need to be the the follow on, right? It can’t just be. Okay, now I’m educating myself and, oh, that’s too bad, right?

[00:42:17] It’s gotta be okay. This is an American problem. It’s not a black community problem. It’s not a problem for black men. Uh, we, we are the, the, uh, the manifestations of it, but this is an [00:42:30] American. Problem. We are all Americans, and if any Americans are suffering from injustice or um, in inequality or have to ask for or demand rights that are already sort of given to us the day or the day citizens, that’s a problem for America.

[00:42:49] Claudius Mbumba: Thanks for the invitation. Thank you. Yeah, I gonna say, Dan, thanks for hosting and really putting this call out there.

[00:42:55] Dan: I appreciate everybody’s perspective. It’s been awesome. All right, well, stay safe [00:43:00] everybody.

[00:43:01] Thanks again for listening to this flashback episode from 2020. Look for a link in the show notes if you want to know what our panelists are up to today in 2023.

[00:43:09] This podcast was produced by me, Dan Kihanya.

[00:43:12] Don’t forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, or simply go to foundersunfound.com/listento. That’s Listen T-O. And follow us on Twitter, Instagram, or LinkedIn @foundersunfound.

[00:43:24] Thanks so much for tuning in.

[00:43:26] I am Dan Kihanya, and you’ve been listening to Founders Unfound.[00:43:30]